Interesting. But lets go further and be normative for a second -- which do you think is "better" for overall gameplay? The SWG style or the WOW style?

Background: I've only played WoW and just yesterday got the Morrowgrain quest. I became fed up with the seed-packet cultivation process, so I just bought the needed amount from the Auction House for a few gold. No long-term contract.

I would like a more personalized system, as it would reward the efforts of crafters like yourself who put work into "customer service" and long-term relationships, while discouraging the practice of farmers who play only to collect and sell commodity parts (often for real money on breach-of-contract websites).

Also, could you do something about cleaning up and maybe preventing spam comments like the recent gambling / casino ones? Thanks!

Adam: I'm not sure that labeling one as "better" has that much value. It makes more sense to understand (or at least consider) how these choices feed into the sociability of these games, so that future games can access lessons learned from these games. Not to mention the possibility of considering changes to the existing games in patch releases.

Ed: I think we're talking about different morrowgrain quests here. For reasons of insanity, I wanted my non-elf character to ride a frostsaber. This involves turning in about 6000 morrowgrain as a repeatable quest.

We have been deleting the $%*& gambling spam comments as fast as we see them, and we've installed comment filtering software, and are finally turning on comment moderation, which we hated to do.

Eric, I understand the resistance to being normative, but was just interested in your position -- which would YOU prefer? Which gives you more enjoyment? Which would you rather play? If it depends on what kind of mood you're in, then so be it. It's just your opinion, yes, but I thought it would be interesting to find it out.

Personally, I think it would be interesting if these games could incorporate a "product life cycle" component that we know exists in business today. Games could put in ways that players can innovative existing materials through time and effort, with the promise of getting "rich" within the context of the virtual world. It would then be a race to find the keys to unlock the innovation, adding a new level of competitiveness to the game.

Okay, fair enough. If we're talking about my own personal preferences as a player, and not about which model is "better" by some objective standard, then I have to say ... it's a tie. I enjoyed the crafting process in SWG, but I prefer WoW's market model. I'm pretty sure that I'm an outlier in both games. I enjoyed the puzzle aspect of crafting in SWG, balancing the cost of different optional resources in a schematic versus the quality of the output. In WoW, I prefer the centrality of the common, unified auction house, and the head-to-head competition that occurs there.

I'd like to hear your reflections taken a bit further; discussing the comparative value of crafting and crafters in the games. I didn't play SWG for long (hated it, hated the crafting system and everything else along with it), and ordinarily I am not a crafting-mad player, though I have had high-level crafters in every game I've played to any extent. That said, I personally believe very strongly that current games do not do nearly enough to make crafters valuable.

In WoW, I don't think crafting is seen by the developers as an actual gameplay choice. This is particularly borne out by the fact that there is a minimum level for crafting at high levels (most people I know who like to craft have multiple alts for different crafting professions; they don't play on those alts or don't play much, they only exist to craft), and I'm very unclear as to why that would be seen as undesirable by a game developer. I think the auction house construction supports a heavily commoditized crafting economy, and I think there is far too little variation in possible end-products. On the other hand, the crafting system in SWG felt, at least to me, horribly burdensome. Maybe it got better, I haven't played since shortly after launch.

In general, though, I feel like developers are almost afraid to make crafters very valuable. In my opinion, this is for two reasons:

1. Allowing crafters to rule the economy to some extent removes a potent reward system from the developers themselves. That said, I think that that is a remarkably lazy approach - there are many, many ways to provide related rewards while still allowing the crafters true economic power.

2. Developers seem to be absolutely terrified of actively supporting or even condoning anything that could be seen as unbalanced. While that is an understandable position when it comes to class balance, the truth is that there is always a bell curve of wealth in-game just as there is IRL - some players manage to be very wealthy, whether by farming or purchasing gold or simply playing constantly, and some players always manage to be flat broke. As long as the path to the very apex of craftsmanship is enough of a challenge, I do not see why those crafters should not be rewarded with comparatively extreme wealth.

Oh, and one other thing. I'm not sure how related this is, but I have personally noticed that WoW seems to be a lot less generous than most other games I have played.

In nearly every game I've played, other players have offered cash and sometimes gear to new or very low players. While beggars are typically barely - if at all - tolerated, polite people who don't ask outright are often given gifts. One of the most striking memories I have is playing my very first MMORPG, DAoC, barely three days after I got the game, and a high-level player ran past and gave me 10g, spontaneously (it may have helped that my character was, like myself, female.) I have had very few similar experiences in WoW. People seem much less likely to want to help others out unless (like, for example, enchanters, who need access to a supply of bracers etc. to up their skill) it also helps them.

Of course, that's only my personal observation, but it has been borne out not only throughout several months of play, but also several different servers - and I only play on PvE servers.

Well, I've already said that I enjoyed the crafting in SWG, and I enjoy playing the auction house (using one of my professions) in WoW. So I completely agree with your suggestion that crafters should be allowed to become immensely wealthy. ;)

What I liked about crafting in SWG was that it was a puzzle to be solved, figuring out which were the cheapest resources I could combine to hit that magic 80% resistance. I suspect this very thing made crafting unappealing to most, however.

If you play the crafting game for long in WoW, the issue isn't optimizing the quality of the product, but optimizing profit from the exchange. Both can be fun, but it's a very different feel. Several WoW professions are overshadowed by drops -- blacksmithing, tailoring, and leatherworking. The auction house is likely to have dropped items which outperform what can be made by players. Usually, not always. Alchemists and enchanters may have it a bit easier.

My personal observation is that very few players are able to make any of the production professions pay for themselves until the high levels, while the collection professions have the luxury of selling their ore, herbs, and leather. I've wondered whether WoW has ended up with too many crafters relative to the population, simply by virtue of allowing a person to have two professions, and their being type kinds of professions. It's almost automatic that people chose one of each. The economy might look very different if each player was allowed one or three.

A third reason developers could fear concentration of wealth is the potential it creates for RMT. If crafting is a way to immense wealth, one can imagine sweatshops where workers watch over crafting bots manufacturing items for sale, and selling with sufficiently thin margins that true player-crafters can't compete.

As to generosity, I've seen it a few times, but I can't compare the frequency to DAoC. Maybe it has something to do with tight inventory space. In a guild setting, though, I've seen that generosity in the form of gift-giving.

Anyway, these are own thoughts on the matter.

Market visibility has since changed. Blizzard implemented customer information in auction purchases.

Having just left the game in late August, I have plenty of experience with the updated UI, environment. Let me know if there's any way I can help.

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